Ethically torn

Despite my hard pro-MGTOW preaching, I actually think about this option a lot.

I am torn between in my mind the ideal society we could be, and the fucked up reality we live in.

I am torn when I see nurses helping blind or burned children and I want to protect this society that helps the weak, but then I turn around and see fem-cunt lesbians man hating and systematically ruining everything men built.

I am torn when I think that pulling out of society is a cowardly thing to do and is giving up, but then I view to support the monolithic entity is the height or irrationality.

I am torn by my loves for animals yet wishing for a SHTF/apocalypse so that we can rebuild from this nightmare.

I am torn between my gentle heart that is constantly ravaged by the world, and the reality that I have to be ‘hard’ lest I pay in more pain.

I am torn between that I actually never wanted to hate women, I really wanted to protect them, and the facts that most women deserve their hate and claim they are just fine in this bubble-bound illusion we call society.

I am torn between if you do not fight against something you acquiesce it, and the reality that one person makes little difference.

Lastly, I am torn because I thought I was supposed to get smarter as I got older, and all I have is more questions.

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44 thoughts on “Ethically torn

  1. “I am torn between in my mind the ideal society we could be, and the fucked up reality we live in.”

    That’s why we have to work towards it, not just be keyboard warriors.

    “I am torn when I see nurses helping blind or burned children and I want to protect this society that helps the weak, but then I turn around and see fem-cunt lesbians man hating and systematically ruining everything men built.”

    Humans are an odd species, in that we are both superbly adaptable and stubborn to a fault. It is my opinion that the pendulum has simply swung too far to one side…with effort, we can push it just far enough back that it will finally be equal.

    ” I am torn when I think that pulling out of society is a cowardly thing to do and is giving up, but then I view to support the monolithic entity is the height or irrationality.”

    It is not cowardly, but until one becomes a mountain dwelling hermit who hunts/grows their own food, one is still at least partially interdependent on a community. There are different levels of interdependence…but they are always present.

    ” I am torn by my loves for animals yet wishing for a SHTF/apocalypse so that we can rebuild from this nightmare.”

    This is something that most people don’t ever really think about: Just how difficult and dangerous life would be in a post apocalyptic, anarchy ridden world. Many innocents would also suffer, and death tolls would most likely be the largest they’ve ever been.

    ” I am torn between my gentle heart that is constantly ravaged by the world, and the reality that I have to be ‘hard’ lest I pay in more pain.”

    EK, everybody has pain in this life (or any other). It’s not preferable, and not ideal…but it’s part of living and interacting with others in various environments and with conflicting ideologies/beliefs. The best one can do is to give a little more than one takes.

    ” I am torn between that I actually never wanted to hate women, I really wanted to protect them, and the facts that most women deserve their hate and claim they are just fine in this bubble-bound illusion we call society.”

    The only problem with this is that you’d be ‘protecting’ women when the majority of them (in Western society) don’t actually need protecting from anything. Treating someone who is your peer in age, intelligence, finances, etc as a child of 10 is justifiably seen as condescending. Think of how you would feel if an entire segment of the population attempted to ‘protect’ you from simply living your life and sought to prevent you from learning from your own mistakes and experiences. This is why I personally dislike sex specific chivalry…if you’re going to be nice/helpful to someone, it should never be based on whether they have a vagina or not.

    ” I am torn between if you do not fight against something you acquiesce it, and the reality that one person makes little difference.”

    The only thing good people have to do to let evil flourish is…nothing.

    ” Lastly, I am torn because I thought I was supposed to get smarter as I got older, and all I have is more questions.”

    This is normal. If you ever believe you have all the answers, you are wrong.

    • “. . . until one becomes a mountain dwelling hermit who hunts/grows their own food, one is still at least partially interdependent on a community.”

      Before one becomes a mountain dwelling hermit one is interdependent on a civilized community.

      Afterwards you are interdependent on the community of the universe.

    • Thanks for all the comments. The one I have issue with is the protection one.

      What you are essentially touting is the same tired lines feminists use forever that they are ‘just as good as a guy, and dont need his help’.

      Do you need a man’s help in our current society? No. But it is the illusory bubble that could be gone in a day. You have the police protecting you, you have the super market providing food etc. Society has taken the role of the male.

      You can argue this all day long, but the biologic truth is that males are stronger and protect females because it is in their reproductive interest. Only ‘modern’ society has distorted that.

      Dyed-in-the-wool feminists are going to have a hell of an eye opener when they find they ‘need’ a male in a bad situation.

      • I see where you are coming from, but this kinda goes back to your other point about the “apocalyptic future”. If this happens *everyone* is screwed, not just women and children. What about men who can’t lift more than 40 lbs? (I can lift 60, and carry 75 if it’s in a backpack, just for comparison.) What about anyone who relies on medication or technology (like an iron lung or oxygen tank) to survive? What about people who have never handled a weapon in their life, or have no clue how to build a temporary shelter?

        I at least have done *some* things that would allow me to survive temporarily, and I actually *have* a emergency evac bag like the Dept of Homeland Security suggests. But I believe that if modern society fell inexplicably tomorrow morning, 80% of both men and women would be utterly screwed.

        What I think society *should* do is get up off their collective asses, teach both sexes to be strong and healthy, and offer programs that would teach others how to build traps, make a shelter, treat simple wounds, etc. That way we’d all be at least somewhat prepared.

        But yes, you are correct in that I’ve never needed someone with a penis to do anything in my life thusfar. Other *people*? Yes, certainly…but not males in particular. We are primates, and are thus social creatures, after all.

        • You are basically making a NAWALT! argument that an exception disproves a generality. If you are an exception, than good job. I am happy for you. But by and large, most females are NOT ready for a collapse situation.

          Further, I grant your point that most males are not either. But when it all shakes down and 10-20% of males are capable and 1-2% of females are, the power gulf is going to shift to males hard.

          • If I accidentally made a NAWALT argument, I apologize. If you recall, I don’t have any female friends, nor to I work with any my age. I honestly don’t know how much a “typical” woman can carry or move. I’m guessing from your response that you have more experience with this topic than I.

            Also, I’ve noticed that about 90% of manospherians talk as though a worldwide apocalypse with no end in sight is always just around the corner. Since people have been saying “the end is nigh” for over 2,000 years, what makes you all think it’s going to happen in 2015? Lol

          • Thanks, EK. I’ll read it when I have time to.

            I’m not saying it is an impossibility, mind you. Every human being could contract a fatal disease with only a few survivors, or we could lose electricity like in that TV show, etc. All I was pointing out is the use of the word “when” rather than “if”, as though an upcoming apocalypse was a foregone conclusion in the next few years.

      • EK, by and large, EVERYONE would be screwed if society collapsed tomorrow. Virtually no one is prepared for that potentiality. Any homegrown food supplies/agriculture would be pillaged immediately by others…unless you have a basement with threee years supply of food and water, medical supplies, et al and a lot of ammo, you’ll be screwed just like everyone else. I’ll be screwed too, and I have several orders more “male power” in my home than just one, my older sons are very capable (and and AR 15, and a lot of other guns which are equalizing weapons and yes, I know how to use them…for all the good it would do under Mad Max conditions).

      • Sorry…make that a basement with built like a vault and bunker, not an ordinary basement, that will last about as long as you can say, “please don’t take my stuff!”

    • A fallen mankind. A fallen world. That’s how things turn out. As far as I am concerned do what I can to obey god and advance his kingdom until the messiah returns.

      “The only thing good people have to do to let evil flourish is…nothing.”

      Sometimes that involves shedding blood. Other times that involves strengthening the weak healing the broken and seeing justice done.

    • Just read that post man. What I always like about your writing man is it is raw, you arent afraid to show emotion. I first read rationale male and Cheateau hertiste, but they are measured, controlled. Fake.

      being a ‘man’ involves emotions, maybe perhaps only to your self, but I am glad you still have feeling man, and let them out.

  2. Helping others makes me feel better. It isn’t just some fringe group of individuals who give of themselves (both men and women), there are thousands and thousands of them. Far more than the number of feminists who post polemics on the internet. Many years ago, I met the most interesting person I’ve ever met (an old woman, actually). She looked about sixty, but when she told me she’d had eight children, and her youngest grandchild was 23, I knew she had to be much, much older. Her husband had been military, an engineer, and they’d had an incredibly interesting life. She used to sneak bibles through the eastern german wall, had she been caught she would have been arrested ( USSR era jails make Gitmo look like the playboy mansion).

    Her entire life was devoted towards raising kids and helping others. Her husband was retired, and at the time of our conversation he was over in Nigeria building a bridge to cross a crocodile infested swamp, using techniques that required no machinery. All of their children were doing exceptional things (her six sons were all engineers). She was more ambitious than any twenty year old I had ever met, and she must have been in her eighties. She would have gone with her husband (she usually did accompany him and volunteer herself), but the area was very dangerous, especially for women so she did not.

    http://wowinfo.org/?page_id=1017

  3. I hear you and I feel the same way. The best I can tell you is BE THE CHANGE. Don’t Stop being MGTOW, relationships are just not worth it. This does not mean you need to fully disengage from society or hate women or any thing like that. Gender relations are ONE and only one aspect of sociey, and that aspect needs to finish breaking before we have a hope of fixing it. Society as a whole doesn’t need to fail, just that one brick that’s not a keystone or corner stone, just a brick. So be the change. You talked highly of nurses, become a nurse or teacher or start a daycare or something similar. You don’t need to stop caring, just don’t enter into a slavery contract err marriage contract.

  4. Are you living in a Western country? I suggest a simple five-step process.

    1 – Get your passport in order.
    2 – Get rid of all the meaningless stuff that has accumulated in your apartment.
    3 – Quit your job.
    4 – Buy a plane ticket to an Asian country of your choice.
    5 – Get a new job in the land of opportunity.

    You can be an ethical part of a relatively healthy society. But you need to start from a relatively sane society. Taiwan achieves a happy medium between humanism and capitalism, IMHO.

      • Note that Asia is mostly a land of opportunity for men.

        Women, especially white women, often complain that Asia is a terribly sexist place.

        Note also that the various countries of Asia welcome very different types of foreigners, and the various cities are very different. Living in Beijing is not like living in Hong Kong, and living in Singapore is not like living in Tokyo.

          • A postmenopausal woman of my acquaintance has complained that Asia is hell for women and heaven for men. By that she meant that men have an easy time finding both short-term and long-term romance, and women have little luck.

            Young white men in Asia are often delighted that their romantic escapades are less obstructed by political correctness. I wouldn’t say that Asia is heaven for men – I would just say that politically correct countries are hell for men, and any change seems heavenly by comparison.

            Aside from romance, however, young men are often delighted by the other opportunities of Asia. Asia economies are healthy, so it’s possible to start a business – something that’s nearly impossible in many English-speaking countries.

      • It’s true cities differ, as do countries. I never got over the culture shock. I’m told Japan is nice, and I know a lot of people who liked it there. But I know very few people who liked living in South Korea. Everyone I know was left with essentially the same impression. It was a good experience, but also good to leave. I’m speaking of single men too, and not only one or two, more like 50.

    • Just to add, I do recommend living there. To see what life is like elsewhere.

      But not AFTER moving, BEFORE moving. Jobs teaching English in Asia at institutions, for example, should be very easy to get (they were for me).

      • Good grief, need an edit feature. Intended to say get a job before moving there, not after moving there. I highly recommend living overseas (though I do think it sucks), offers some serious perspective.

      • I lived in South Korea for a year, and toured much of Asia. I taught conversational English to all ages, from grade school up through businessmen and bankers. Good income back then. I spent two weeks in China, also visited Hong Kong, Singapore, Thailand. China is very culturally similar to South Korea.

      • The women? Some are marriageable, many are not.

        Most white men who come to Asia find that there are many women who present themselves as prospective girlfriends.

        Some white men think that Asian women are God’s gift to men.

        IMHO Asian women are not God’s gift to men. Asian women are just typical human women, with all the faults and flaws associated with typical mortal status.

          • I would argue that Asian women are about average, but women in English-speaking countries (USA, Canda, NZ< Australia, etc) are shockingly degraded and debased.

            The Anglozone is full of political correctness. Asia has relatively little political correctness. Life in Asia is thus relatively blissful. However, this does not mean that Asian women are goddesses, or that marriage to an Asian is guaranteed to produce happiness.

            Also, if you're of a non-Asian race, be advised that the children of mixed-race marriages can face emotional turmoil. Some parents are willing to take this risk; others are not.

      • zhal2nan2, Have you actually lived in Asia?
        I’ve just never heard a person familiar with the culture over there group all of Asia together. They are incredibly diverse societies.
        And fwiw, when I was there white women did quite well (exception the eastern Europe and Russian juicy girls who had thier passports confiscated by the bar owners and worked under extortion conditions).

  5. Pingback: Reject the West and emigrate to Asia | vulture of critique

  6. I get that having a heart is going to get stompped on by this world.

    Which is why I’m starting to adopt the thought that I’ll express my emotions through my actions policy. Having, talking, or showing emotion really don’t mean much anymore.

  7. Few different opinions towards:

    1.Tarnished: in a society that supposedly does not need protection of any kind as the government does it all or whatever else-how come women still use their charms to still have men under heel, why do they play a part to being needy,submissive ONLY when this suits their own interests, why do women have to prove at all costs that they are as strong but if the case ever to be proved the contrary they change their minds in no time???
    You American chicks do not even appreciate what you actually have there-believe me while the West Europe is somewhat more similar feminism-wise to the States the East Europe though it sounds bad,poor or corrupted or whatever else (and believe me things are not at all as presented in media) is far more traditional in some ways. There would be plenty of chicks going from Czech Republic and ending with Bulgaria who would find an American male more determined,steady,reliable and therefore more attractive then their local males who just raised their beta/self sufficient but still dependent on their parents income here-or the social aid in the West status to a higher level.European guys are far more perverted sexually and more prone to getting bored, being drug addicts,rejecting females not necessarily because they are feminists but because of commitment phobias and living a life of Peter Pan until they’re 70+.
    Most of them avoid going in the Army or tough training,having discipline or being physically stronger-getting high does it for them, dot.

    2.Liz:Are you sure that the statement you did about East European chicks well they had it bad in Asia as they have been used in clubs and so on reflects a general reality??As just they might have been so stupid, slutty easy to fool by just throwing some shit dollars at them was just enough to became sex slaves or whatever??Yes there are cases as East Europe and Russia had bad economies and corrupted politics,though you cannot generalize and make statements as that.There are East European women not any less decent than you, and even if they have been abused or used as sex slaves-did you ever do something to help out if you knew about it or you just turned your head in another direction and enjoyed your vacation???
    And if so-why are you any better then?

    • @lateo2014

      Some women act that way unconsciously, because they have been taught to and can’t find a reason to question it. Others have questioned it, and decided they are somehow fine with doing X one day and Y the next because it suits them. These type of women are immature, and have a lesser moral compass. Some women go the traditional route, like Liz, and subscribe to typical gender roles. There’s a far smaller group who understands that it’s unfair to change the sociosexual interactions on a daily (if not hourly) basis, and reject the idea that they need the sort of help accorded a child.

      This is the group I fall into. Being physically female is not some type of trophy, nor should it mean I get special treatment. My life has the same value as any other average person…if I was on a sinking ship, I’d no more expect a man to give up his seat on a lifeboat to me than I’d expect aliens to beam us all to safety. I dislike chivalry, and do not want it. I want to help both men and women because I try to be a decent human being…if I’m busy waiting for someone to open a friggin’ door or pay for my food, how the hell am I going to help *anyone*? In this day and age, women need to realize they are not princesses and only deserve equal treatment, never superior.

      That said…yes, I’m incredibly lucky to have been born in America, or even just in the West. I am happy to live in an interdependent society where men and women besides me choose jobs that keep it running. I’m thankful for the policeman who drives around my neighborhood at night, and I’m thankful for the female doctor who set my little sister’s arm after she broke it.

      I never once said that I didn’t understand or appreciate what I had here. I simply condemn the idea that men should feel pressured into taking on gender roles that necessarily make them into protectors when it’s unfair, unnecessary, and creates a system where a male should be expected to give time out of his day (or Gods forbid, his life) to someone who has no more value than he.

      Hopefully this answers your question, and that EK doesn’t mind me posting said reply.

      • Hey-thanks for explaining it further..Well you are lucky to have been born in a society that gave you the opportunity to choose.Others were not that lucky-but anywhere in the world there is good and bad, and having it harder does not make them lesser humans 🙂

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